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Hi, Dmitry.
Finishing off the confetti topic : Jake isn’t running away, he’s running amok – the phrase “run amok” here means to make a disproportionate fuss or lose your temper. Jake’s promising to behave on his wedding day despite his aunt and sister filling his shirt and pants with confetti. As happened to me… :o)
Right :
On Again On Again : “the tongue on a woman that spoils the job for me”
Jake is pretending to be a misogynist – someone with a low or prejudiced opinion against women – to satirise their attitudes. He starts by describing the component pieces of a lady – bum, breasts, arms, ankles, elbows, knees etc – almost the way you would review a manufactured item, like a car, which is often the way a misogynist will look at a woman – in an impersonal way, concentrating on physical attributes. So, you might say “I love the new Lada Granta – the design is good, the fuel efficiency is excellent, the suspension is comfortable, the stereo is excellent… but the interior finishing is in cheap plastic, which spoils the job for me” – the “job” here is the job of putting the car together. Jake’s misogynist character sees the tongue of a woman (specifically, I think, the amount it is used in speaking on again on again) as the one failing component in the job of assembling a woman. The comedy of the song lies in the possibility that there might be male listeners (and female listeners too) who know of women with a tendency to over-talk – but they will also note that, in criticising women who go on again on again, Jake’s misogynist character goes on again on again at some length in doing so.
The Blacksmith And The Toffee-Maker : “As love requires, with some deceits, he used his fires to boil up her sweets”
Now : Jake also occasionally sings “she used his fires to boil up her sweets”, especially in later live recordings, which is a change from the original published lyrics. I spoke to three Jake enthuisiasts last month about this, after the last JakeFest, and we had an interesting chat and some ideas.
First – we thought that the fires and sweets are both factual and allegorical – Jake has chosen to leave the interpretation in the mind of the listener. Blacksmith’s lusty passion ? Toffee-Maker’s produce ? You decide if it’s one, the other, or both.
However, it all depends on a couple of things :
1) if Jake has “her” using “his” fires, or if it the blacksmith using them himself
2) if the using of the fires is one of the deceits mentioned in the first half of the sentenceFair enough – it is a rare marriage where one or the other partner doesn’t hide the odd secret from the other. However, we couldn’t see what deceit there would be in a husband who has fires in his smithy, using them to help his new wife to boil her sweets up. Or, indeed, using his passion in a similarly warming way in their newlywed status… So that might mean that the two halves of the sentence are separate and not intended to specifically relate :
1) …they knew their hearts’ desires, with some deceits.
2) He used his fires to boil up her sweets.No deceit in the using of the fires, but a bit of a clipped, clumsy ending to the song : and Jake isn’t clumsy in his songwriting like that.
However, we have recordings of Jake singing “she used his fires”, so Jake may have changed the lyrics early on in the life of the song because it made more sense. There could, indeed, be some deceit in the Toffee-Maker sneakily boiling her sweets on her husband’s smithy fires : maybe he doesn’t like her doing it, maybe getting toffee in the iron, that a horseshoe is made of, will make it brittle, or she leaves the handles of the tongs all sticky, or the smith workshop is full of her cardboard sweet boxes and paper bags, and it’s a fire risk. Health and Safety ! Or indeed, the deceit might be her getting some secret pleasure out of her husband’s passion : a simple country Blacksmith in the early part of the the last century might only consider his own lust when, er, venting it with his wife, and not realise that she too deserves to enjoy the experience… and she may be secretly getting on the boil herself… :o)
Enjoy !
Malcy
p.s. – Dmitry : I’m enjoying this so feel free to ask away on any other points. I’m sure if there are aspects of what I think that visitors need to correct or add to, they will and you’re all welcome to chip in.
However, one of the things you’ll eventually ask is “What does the last verse of Billy Kershaw mean ?”… and no-one really knows. :o)
Malcy
Hi, Malcy!
Thanks for so detailed explanations and assumptions. I almost understood everything and where didn’t understand, guessed on a context there.But this isn’t clear to me. You told: “Finishing off the confetti topic: Jake isn’t running away”. However…
«So have no fear, I won’t turn tail;
I won’t run amuck
when the females chuck
Confetti in my ears.»What does “turn tail” mean? I thought that it is “run away”. No?
хххххххххххххххххххххххххххх
«…Blacksmith in the early part of the the last century might only consider his own lust when, er, venting it with his wife…»
«er» — what is it?
«1) …they knew their hearts’ desires, with some deceits.
2) He used his fires to boil up her sweets.)»Whether Jake place itself punctuation marks in the text?
If he didn’t place them, in my opinion, such options are possible:1.
They knew their hearts’ desires as love requires.
With some deceits he used his fires to boil up her sweets.
2.
They knew their hearts’ desires as love requires, with some deceits.
She used his fires to boil up her sweets.Here in both cases :
«deceits» – blacksmith’s words in the church
«fires» – blacksmith’s lust
«sweets» – female’s passionххххххххххххххххххххххххххххххххх
«However, one of the things you’ll eventually ask is “What does the last verse of Billy Kershaw mean ?”… and no-one really knows. :o)»
Strange, but I had no question of the maintenance of this verse. I understood at once it so:
«If you’re ugly, if you’re weak, or meek, or queer, form a queue» — Jake invites unfortunate women form a queue near, probable , his door 🙂 .
«And the rest of us will travel from afar» — He says that to him to the aid there will arrive his adherents (naturally, he won’t be able to make everything alone!)
«And systematically we’ll do to you what Billy used to do – But more regular and always twice as hard,» — I think, here it is already clearly that will occur.
«by the way, Mea culpa, mea culpa, as they used to say.» — Jake repents that before didn’t give love to ugly women.*********************
Now my new questions:
«And then upon the peace of me ducks and me geese»
Jake uses “me” instead of “my”? In what cases it can be done?
«He ravished my fan-tailed pigeons and
Me lily-white columbines,»Сolumbines it not pigeons?
«But the bantam thundered on»
He got loud glory?
хххххххххххххххххххххххх
«My great-great-uncle Sam,
A very tranquil sort of man,
Could not afford his wife a pram –
He pushed his babies round the park
In a green wheelbarrow.
Nevertheless, despite their sins,
Bless my kiths and bless my kins.»«a green wheelbarrow» — it is simply garden cart or something else?
If it is the garden cart, the humour isn’t clear to me:
– As “tranquil sort of man” is connected with the wheelbarrow?
– Why wheelbarrow is green? In good verses excess details aren’t necessary.
– Where here sin? Whether a sin is pushing of babies in a wheelbarrow by a poor? (It by the way isn’t really ridiculous.)If Sam works in a mortuary and would roll babies on a wheelchair for corpses, I would understand humour.
ххххххххххххххххххххххххххх
http://www.jakethackray.com/images/stories/pdf/BantamCock.pdf
Brassens is a «con-author» of a song or here a mistake?ххххххххххххххххххххххххххх
“Oh, Sister Josephine,
Founder of the convent pontoon team,”The team of floating bridge? I don’t understand.
Yours faithfully to your searches
DmitryPS
Sorry that I don’t insert the quote into tags. At the forum my editing’s window jumps.Dmitry, I think this conversation is excellent. The questions you ask are really interesting – and I’m sure Malcy will respond to them much better than I could! All I can say is that there are lots of strange English phrases, which don’t always mean what they seem to mean, but we English just “take them for granted” – (that means we just accept them).
I look forward to the next instalment!
Pam
Hi Dmitry !
Old questions :
1) Finishing off the confetti topic: Jake isn’t running away
You said “I didn’t assume before that a confetti can cause the inconveniences so big that it is necessary to run away.”
You’re right – “turn tail” does mean “run away” but that’s used in the first half of the sentence, before the punctuation. Jake is promising not to “run amok” because of the confetti, and I thought you had maybe got the meaning of “run amok” wrong. He’s promising not to “turn tail” because of the photographs, but it’s all intended to add to the feeling of nervousness, shyness, fear and being uncomfortable Jake is willing to put up with to marry the girl he loves.
2) «er» — what is it?
I wrote “Blacksmith in the early part of the the last century might only consider his own lust when, er, venting it with his wife…”
You must do this in Russia too. You are saying something to someone, in full flow, and you get to a point when you are not quite sure how to word something, and you stop talking, but the air comes out in a wordless syllable while you are trying to phrase what you want to say. Er, em, um, ah : those types of noises. You might do it because you are not sure of what to say, but often you do it because you had nearly expressed your words automatically without thinking of who you are speaking to : you might have been about to say something rude or vulgar, and then remember that you are speaking to your mother, and you stop while you’re reconsidering a cleaner phrase, maybe unconsciously uttering “er” or “um” in the gap before you restart.
English people are supposed to be embarassed by discussing matters of sex, and I didn’t want to write something which a visitor to the forum might find offensive : so I pretended to be an embarrassed Englishman and, em, stuttered over my choice of words when discussing the, um, physical details of the, er, sexual act between the Blacksmith and his Toffee-Maker. :o)
3) Jake’s punctuation.
I hadn’t actually considered that the deceits might have been the words the Blacksmith used in the church – the “tones of Jehovah” are a while ago in the course of the song, and I’d assumed Jake bought deceits up as a new idea for something closer in the song. You may be right.
Because Jake chooses to vary his original words from “he” to “she” over the lifetime of the song, who knows where the punctuation is, in his mind, when he sings the new version. Only Jake knows whether he means one specific meaning or punctuation, or whether he has deliberately (or even accidentally) phrased the lyrics to give his audience multiple things to think about : we suspect it is deliberate because of the quality of his poetry. Interesting, isn’t it, how the changing of one word and the possible positioning of a single punctuation mark gives new flavours to a song’s meaning…
OK : new questions !
1) Jake uses “me” instead of “my” ?
In English, “my” is the correct posessive, as an educated person or higher-class person would be taught : but England has many local dialects, especially spoken by less-educated or working-class people, and “me” is often used in these dialects as a substitute for “my”. Jake comes from Yorkshire, a region of England associated with fiercer, colder weather and bleak moorland, and Yorkshire people are traditionally supposed to be, “er”, (me being careful in case any Yorkshiremen are reading… 😉 ) hardy, outspoken, blunt and honest to the point of tactlessness, opinionated, stubborn and honest, hard-working working-class folk. Jake would have used “me” instead of “my” in everyday speaking in Yorkshire and it is common in my local dialect too.
So Jake is using “me” instead of “my” to show that the topic of the randy bantam is more suitable for discussion by a ruder, more common person : he’s in character as the Yorkshire farmer who is watching the bantam in action. Only an earthier, plain-spoken person would describe of the bantam’s actions in any detail, and a more educated Englishman, with better manners, might gloss over them completely.
However, more than this, I think Jake is conscious of how the words sound phonically. A phrase like “me ducks and me geese” flows better and easier than “my ducks and my geese”. Note that he mixes these throughout the song : “ravished MY fantail pigeons and ME lily-white columbine”, “jumped MY giggling guinea-fowl” : it feels to me as if he’s walking a tightrope through the song, veering from “Me” to “My”, from vulgarity to sophisticated speaking, as he tackles describing the excesses of the bantam’s lust.
2) I think Columbine is more associated with a Dove than a Pigeon, although (I think) Pigeons and Doves are in the same class of bird.
3) “Thundering on” refers more to the unstoppable natural power of thunder (and the bantam). I imagine there would have been a certain glory to see him going through the farmyard’s lady birds, though… :o)
4) «a green wheelbarrow»
A wheelbarrow is indeed just a wooden or metal garden cart. No-one in England would normally push a baby in one, even if you were too poor to afford a real pram, so the humour is in the incongruity of the situation. Maybe Sam has to have a certain insane tranquility to have thought of such a solution.
Wheelbarrows are often green as they are a gardening tool. You say “In good verses excess details aren’t necessary” but Jake has an extra syllable in the line and maybe just stuck green in : sometimes things are there because they fit and they don’t merit over-evaluation.
5) “For my sins” is an English phrase meant to excuse something you do, as if the activity is a penance for a sin.
Do you watch much football ?
Yes, for my sins.You’re telling me you know all of Jake’s 90 songs ?
Yes, for my sins.People use the phrase to excuse the fact that they choose to do something unusual or to excess, as if they are being forced to do it : the phrase really means “I’m going to do it and I like it and it’s none of your business if I choose to or not”. Jake’s “despite their sins” has a similar meaning : he’s proud of his relatives’ peculiar behaviour and is not excusing them.
There may be no actual sin involved, though Jake’s relatives do perform some sinning :
Uncle Sebastian raped a duchess.
Cousin Sheila may have inappropriate dress sense for her cleavage size.
Uncle Sam is certainly not very considerate of a baby’s comfort or safety.
Uncle Will and Auntie May had more than one child before getting married – a scandal on the 50s and 60s in England.However, again: Sins rhymes with Kins and the song’s about a family. It’s an easy, catchy rhyme and so, again, maybe you’re over-analysing – it doesn’t all have to be literally correct and no-one is suggesting that offering the Queen a Woodbine cigarette is a sin. :o)
5) BantamCock.pdf – “Brassens is a «con-author» of a song or here a mistake?”
Looks like it’s a mistake on my part and I’ll have it corrected. I did have to do 90 of them on my own… 🙁
6) Founder of the convent pontoon team
Pontoon is also the name of a card game. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_%28card_game%29
There is a British version called blackjack, mentioned on the same page.Both card games are, of course, not appropriate activities for nuns. :o)
Malcy
[quote=”Pam” post=3652]Dmitry, I think this conversation is excellent … I’m sure Malcy will respond to them much better than I could! [/quote]
Hi, Pam! Thanks for kind words.
I think that your opinion as one from living person, too it will be interesting to me. No matter, there will be it correct or wrong.[quote=”Malcy” post=3653]Hi Dmitry ![/quote]
Hi, Malcy! Thanks, I again understood everything that you told.er & my > me
You write very in detail as for the student and you do correctly because you don’t know in what degree these unclear Russians are capable to understand all English. If you asked me in Russian about something Russian, I too would answer you in detail as to the student in the correct literary language. However, I regret that you spend so much time for me. If you answer a little more shortly, I too will be able to understand, I hope.
… “turn tail” does mean “run away” but that’s used in the first half of the sentence, before the punctuation
He’s promising not to “turn tail” because of the photographs,Now there is an order in my head! I didn’t pay attention that there is no point after “photographs”. Where there were my eyes?! Consoles me only that two person (Russians) knowing English is much better than me too told “turn tail” because of the confetti. I was compelled to work by head, redoing my translation. But it is pleasant work 🙂 .
By the way, who placed punctuation marks in Jake’s verses? Jake personally? His рublisher or admirers?
No-one in England would normally push a baby in one, even if you were too poor to afford a real pram, so the humour is in the incongruity of the situation.
You convinced me.
Jake has an extra syllable in the line and maybe just stuck green in
I understood that the English listener understanding the general context doesn’t pay attention to little details. (Green?. OK!; red?. OK, OK!) But the foreigner inclined to an «over-analyz» like me can assume that something doesn’t understand because “green” it isn’t neutral “big” or “old” (as I would write). However I don’t reproach Jake because he composed songs for British first of all.
There may be no actual sin involved,
Jake’s … proud of his relatives’ peculiar behaviour and is not excusing them.You tell “sin involved” about traditional church sins? I understand Jack’s irony.
#######################
Other questions:
«Bless my kiths and bless my kins.»
Here it is meant «My God , bless…»?
«Kiths» doesn’t belong to a family. This word only for a rhyme to «kins»?++++++++++++++++
«They dressed their kids up in white
When they both went legal.»Who are «they both» ? :
– Will and May (I so think)
– kids (it became clear that them there were two)
– Jake as usual provides to the listener to draw a conclusion++++++++++++++++
«But once I’d got the bleeder in, I couldn’t get the bleeder out of the hole.»
“Bleeder” is a sick person in the dictionary (other values are no good here). Jake uses it instead of “bleeding finger”?
++++++++++++++++
«Posing for your picture with your finger up a hole!»
Cutting bread and butter up the old men’s shelter.The using of “up” (instead of in, at?) by Jake, whether is norm literary or imitation of a dialect?
+++++++++++++++
«But I suddenly felt like giving that little hole a furtive prod.»
A furtive prod on sex or on a worm?
+++++++++++++++
What your opinion:
– what some melodies of Jake the best (without considering verses)?
– what verses first of all can be interesting to foreigners if to translate them into other languages?
(I think, comparing Brassens and Tackray: G.B. is more international, and almost all his songs can be translated almost adequately, and they can be completely understood by foreigners; J.T. is more English and, unfortunately, only the few his songs can are translated adequately — difficulty here not in selection of suitable words, but in transfers of “spirit”.)I ask all to answer the last questions.
Dmitry
Hiya Dmitry, and all.
I’m happy to help with your questions and I’m not worried if they need a long explanation. Tell me to shut up if I’m taking too long !
1) who placed punctuation marks in Jake’s verses ?
I don’t know, and don’t know if anyone does. Jake was a man with an excellent vocabulary and was an English teacher to both home and overseas students, so I assume he wrote the original texts out himself and submitted them to the publisher. I doubt if Jake had the skills to write out the sheet music too – he was a self-taught musician, not a formally trained one. Very often, a songwriter may not be classically trained or massively literate, so I have a feeling that songwriters give recordings of their songs to publishing houses if they can’t write the scores out themselves, and they have staff who listen to the songs and work out the tunes and chords, and score the sheet music for their songwriters. Very often it’s not entirely accurate – the official chords to a lot of the early songs of The Beatles, for example, are often plain wrong when compared to the recordings. But when the transcribing is done, I assume the artist is given the sheet music to approve, and then the finished transcript becomes the official sheet music of the publisher.
2) You tell “sin involved” about traditional church sins?
and
Bless my kiths and bless my kinsJake was a religious man, a Catholic worshipper, and his religion was a core part of his life, so I think he is definitely using “sins” and “bless” with their religious meanings. The “sins” I listed – extra-marital sex and childbirth, rape, child neglect, etc would all be considered sinful by the Catholic Church of Jake’s day, if not nowadays too.
The English phrase “kith and kin” is the correct phrase used to describe your close relatives – the “kith” part is a word describing close affection with someone, I think. Jake has unusually changed the phrase “kith and kin” to “kiths and kins” by pluralising (if that’s a word) the words, possibly to underline the fact that he has an awful lot of relatives, but also to make “kins” rhyme with “sins”.3) «They dressed their kids up in white
When they both went legal.»Yes – this is obviously Uncle Will and Auntie May, finally legalising their relationship by marrying, long after the birth of their childern.
4) «But once I’d got the bleeder in, I couldn’t get the bleeder out of the hole.»
“Bleeder” is a mild swear word in English, as in “Those Jedward chaps are silly bleeders with those haircuts, aren’t they ?” Jake is expressing mild frustration with his finger being stuck.
5) «But I suddenly felt like giving that little hole a furtive prod.»
A “prod” is the same as a “poke”, but possibly more intrusive and ruder. It is probably only sexual in any way because there is a hole involved, and Jake makes constant reference to fingers in holes, up holes, etc : a bit of bawdiness for humerous effect.
6) «Posing for your picture with your finger up a hole!»
Jake insists on saying “up” the hole throughout the song and this is probably to give a bawdy sexual connotation to the references.
«Cutting bread and butter up the old men’s shelter.»
This is dialect and slang, I think. Sometimes “up” or “down” is put in a sentence for the geography : I live on a steep road, and from where I live I would go “down” to Stourbridge or “up” to Brierley Hill because of the direction needed – “I’ll have to go down Stourbridge to get that”. Sometimes it’s “up” for a posh area, and “down” for the less posh end, as if it’s an indication of quality – “I’m going up Solihull this afternoon !”. Sometimes a local English dialect puts “up” or “down” in all the time even though it’s not needed, purely to indicate it’s a different location to where you are, and I think this is the one here.
Finally, you’d like some suggestions of songs ?
– what some melodies of Jake the best (without considering verses)?
– what verses first of all can be interesting to foreignersLike everyone who likes music, I have my favourite tunes and less favourites, but they’ll be different to everyone else’s taste, so I don’t know if my top ten Jake melodies would be any use to you. If you think it’ll help, I’ll post you the titles of my favourite Jake tunes, and other readers could too : but any or all of our choices might not match with your taste.
I can’t think of a way of imaging what songs might be easy to translate or understand by non-English speakers, because I’m not a non-English speaker ! Are you after Jake songs with as little slang, imagery etc as possible ?
Malcy
Hello again, Dmitry!
I haven’t “joined in” because I think Malcy is giving you much better answers than I could, and it is good that you can understand them. I might confuse things!
You said:
[i]What your opinion:
– what some melodies of Jake the best (without considering verses)?
– what verses first of all can be interesting to foreigners if to translate them into other languages?
(I think, comparing Brassens and Tackray: G.B. is more international, and almost all his songs can be translated almost adequately, and they can be completely understood by foreigners; J.T. is more English and, unfortunately, only the few his songs can are translated adequately — difficulty here not in selection of suitable words, but in transfers of “spirit”.)I ask all to answer the last questions.[/i]
All I can say here is that I think you are right that translating Jake into other languages might lose some of the spirit of what he says. For me his use of English is very clever, sometimes too clever even for many English speakers!
I have a comment for Malcy here though – I think when Dmitry said: ” If you answer a little more shortly, I too will be able to understand, I hope.” – he might be asking you to try to give him slightly shorter responses if you can. Oh, and in England people from London who think that London is the most important place often say they’re going “up” to London, and “Down” if they’re going somewhere else, and there may be no hills involved.
Many people don’t live in London and don’t think it’s the most important place, so we use it as Malcy described!
Pam
[quote=”Pam” post=3664]I have a comment for Malcy here though – I think when Dmitry said: ” If you answer a little more shortly, I too will be able to understand, I hope.” – he might be asking you to try to give him slightly shorter responses if you can.[/quote]
:laugh:
You won’t be the first to say that and you won’t be the last, Pam ! I’m not trained at teaching people, I’m a bloke who talks a tad to much, but also with a wide vocabulary, a logical mind, a sort-of-artistic bent and an enthusiast of Jake lyrics. You get the whole package, I’m afraid. 😉
I’ll do my best but I can’t promise anything…[quote=”Malcy” post=3663]Hiya Dmitry[/quote]
Hello, Malcy, thanks!I’m happy to help with your questions and I’m not worried if they need a long explanation.
OK, Malcy! I will be happy to read your long explanation. As I like «a word» I perceive good explanations as an art form. When it happens that I have to someone explain something I try to make everything perfectly too.
If you think it’ll help, I’ll post you the titles of my favourite Jake tunes, and other readers could too : but any or all of our choices might not match with your taste.
I assume that my taste differs from yours, because all people are different (it is truism) and because the principles of the composition of the Russian and English song melodies are a little different too, because rhythmic structures of these languages are strongly differ. But all the same I want to learn your opinion to try to understand a little how the Englishman perceive a music.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Now answer questions, please:«A little kip was all that I desired,»
Kip – recreation?«He Drank himself toward the skyline and his friends to the floor just
To prove how fit he was for boozing for ninety years more.»«toward the skyline and his friends to the floor» — I don’t understand it. Tell it in other words.
Why «more»? The Grandad was exactly 90 years old. He wanted to show that will be able to drink in 91, 92 etc.?«Was singing Rule Britannia backwards in his underwear.»
Rule Britannia backwards – it is the parody to the anthem? It is means «Britannia, turn back»?«You walk in your sleep, you feel worried by sheep.» — You sleep during walk and you calculate sheeps in a sleep?
«Roll the carpet right back, get cracking with your old Gay Gordons
And your knees up, shake it up, live it up, sup it up, hell of a kind of a time»«live it up, sup it up» — it is about knees? It means “move knees more intensively”?
«hell of a kind of a time» — It is Jake’s neologism «hell of a time» (I found it in the dictionary) + «of a kind»?«The queen of every problem page at seventeen»
17 – age of the girl?« She says she’s got a little mole in a place where nobody’s ever seen
And she asks is it unsightly pretty “Brown Eyes”»
“Brown Eyes” it is the signature probably?
Why a mole is «unsightly pretty» at the same time? These are opposite qualities.
Рrobable «unsightly or pretty»?This day it is enough for me.
Now I analyze “Personal Column”. It is a nightmare for me – I don’t understand a half. I will be needs your separate lecture on this song.What do you think about my interpretation of the maintenance of the last verse of The Blacksmith and The Toffeemaker which I wrote earlier? You think also or otherwise?
About «Lah-Di-Dah»
I assumed that the “basic” melody, except four short pieces, is monotonous within each chord / step. According to it I sang the Russian version. The rhythmic matrix of each verse of Jake is unique. But in the Russian version I didn’t see sense to copy an exact rhythm because in this song a verses, but not a melody, are primary. I «build up» only two matrixes of pieces of four Jake’s matrixes. The first for 1 and 3 verses; the second for 2 and 4 verses. If you listen it, your opinion will be interesting to me. (It is a request to all.) http://www.chitalnya.ru/work/1187556/[quote=”Pam” post=3664]Hello again, Dmitry![/quote]
Hello again, Pam!Oh, and in England people from London who think that London is the most important place often say they’re going “up” to London, and “Down” if they’re going somewhere else, and there may be no hills involved.
I understood, thanks!
By the way. In the Russian the prepositions with geographical names are put irrespective of importance of a place by all. However amusing precedent happened in Ukrainian which is very similar to Russian. In both languages always with Countrie’s names told the preposition “в” (in): “I live в (in) Russia” or “he goes в (in) England-to”, but with the name Ukraine always told the preposition “на” (on). So spoke not because Ukraine there was the part of Russia (Ukraine means literally “What is on the edge”), but so spoke since antiquity and nobody asked “why so?”. After Ukraine became the independent country, the Ukrainians decided that the preposition “on” humiliates the dignity of Ukraine therefore it is necessary to speak from now on “in Ukraine “. However in Russian remained on old and when the Russian person speaks to the Ukrainian on a habit “on Ukraine”, some Ukrainians are angry. And it is ridiculous and sad.Dmitry
Hi, Dmitry !
Here we go again on our adventure.
1) «A little kip was all that I desired,»
“Kip” is an English slang word for a nap, a short refreshing sleep.
2) «He drank himself toward the skyline and his friends to the floor just
To prove how fit he was for boozing for ninety years more.»Drink makes you feel “high” – euphoric – so Grandad is drinking so much he is getting as “high” as the sky.
His friends can’t drink as much as him, however, and their attempts to keep up with him make them fall over on the floor, drunk and incapable of standing.3) «Was singing Rule Britannia backwards in his underwear.»
It will be punctuated more like this : Grandad is «singing “Rule Britannia” backwards, in his underwear.» He is so drunk he has undressed in public and has lost most of the clothes, and he is singing “Rule Britannia” either backwards, or he’s so drunk it sounds like he is. I don’t think the actual song he’s chosen, “Rule Britannia”, is important, although many older people are more tradtitionally patriotic than younger people, so Jake might just add a patriotic song as colour for his grandad’s character.
4) «You walk in your sleep, you feel worried by sheep.»
— You sleep during walk and you calculate sheeps in a sleep?Some animals make small running movements when they’re asleep, probably as they are dreaming of running. Jake’s dog actually gets up and walks while asleep – it’s unusual in humans, and I imagine rarer in dogs.
Jake’s dog feels worried by sheep, where the opposite would normally be true – dogs are predatory animals and sheep are normally panicked by them. “Worried” is also used to describe an animal like a dog, fox, etc – a predatory animal – running loose among livestock and causing them to panic. As in “My dog escaped from its leash, ran into the field and worried the sheep”. So Jake use “worried” mostly in the normal sense of “feeling anxious about something”, but there is also that secondary meaning of “worried” which applies to dogs worrying sheep, that adds an overtone.5) «Roll the carpet right back, get cracking with your old Gay Gordons
And your knees up, shake it up, live it up, sup it up, hell of a kind of a time»These are all short phrases describing having an enjoyable time.
Gay Gordons – this is a waltz-time country dance that is particularly lively.
Knees-up – A knees-up is an enjoyable occasion, as if you have been dancing so vigorously your knees have been rising in the air.
Shake it up – Shake those limbs ! Get moving and enjoy yourself !
Live it up – live an occasion like you’re enjoying yourself
Sup it up – there will be drink you can sup to add to the enjoyment
Hell of a time – a really enjoyable and memorable occasion.Jake puts “kind” in because he wants his funeral to be all of these “kinds” of enjoyment.
6) «The queen of every problem page at seventeen»
17 – age of the girl?
– yes.7) «She says she’s got a little mole in a place where nobody’s ever seen
And she asks is it unsightly pretty “Brown Eyes”»“Brown Eyes” it is the signature probably?
– yes.Why a mole is «unsightly pretty» at the same time? These are opposite qualities.
Рrobable «unsightly or pretty»?Probably punctuated as «She asks “Is it unsightly ?”, pretty Brown Eyes.»
She is a young girl asking a newspaper “Agony Aunt” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advice_column) for advice on things a teenage girl would be worried by, and in this sentence she’s worried about her appearance, as teenage girls are. She’s worried her mole is unsightly, and Jake answers her question for us – she’s actually a pretty Brown Eyes, so the mole is not as unsightly as she thinks.
Lastly –
«Now I analyze “Personal Column”. It is a nightmare for me – I don’t understand a half. I will be needs your separate lecture on this song.»
Personal Column is going to cause you some difficulty, unless Russian newspapers have similar sections. Jake is writing about a common section of newspapers called the Personal Column, found in the era he was writing from, the 1960s/1970s, in England. Anyone could write to the newspaper, pay a small fee, and have a small paragraph of text printed in the Column – items for sale, items wanted to buy, love messages, birth/marriage/anniversary/death notices, requests for help or information, almost anything that you would now put on a bulletin board or a twitter/facebook post. Jake fills the song with imagined Personal Column entries from people of all areas of English society from the 1960s/1970s, to show the oddness, peculiar culture and obsessions of English society.
The examples are sometimes real, sometimes exaggerated, sometimes weird : it’s going to be a while explaining them all, showing what they relate to and how realistic they are, if that’s what you need ! Even if we get through them all, you still may not fully understand… 🙂«What do you think about my interpretation of the maintenance of the last verse of The Blacksmith and The Toffeemaker which I wrote earlier? You think also or otherwise?»
Not sure what you mean by «maintenance» – it may be your turn to have to explain to me !
Malcy
Hi, Malcy, again I thank for explanations! As usual you told everything clearly.
About “Personal Column”.
I assumed that it is the song about personal questions, requests etc in a newspaper. However, certainly, I understood not all sense when the first time read these verses. Now, having a little thought, I understood, how it seems to me, the most part of content. I was also helped by your explanation about “Agony Aunt” – I would never guess it independently.
There were some questions:
1) “Agony will always find a way.”
Is it means “A aunt/uncle Agony will answer any question”?
2) “taken short”
Is it a reader tells about a problem, that his child is crapped?
3) “Agony at seven-and-a-kick a time,”
Is this time of the beginning or end of work-day of the Agony?
4) “Artistic photographs, plain paper covers, fifty-nine-and-sixpence, postage free.”
“plain paper covers,” – notebook or album for artistic photographs?
“fifty-nine-and-sixpence” – the price for the work of a photographer (59), for an album of photos (6)? Transfer to the client — 0 pences?
5) “Did Sidney send for postcards through the post?”
I didn’t understand what Sydney made. Did he send the cards to Mollie by mail? Why Mollie took offense?
6) “And there’s news of debutantes coming out with all the customary Belgrave balls.”
I found Belgrave Hotel in the Internet, but I don’t understand about what it is.“What do you think about my interpretation of the maintenance of the last verse of The Blacksmith and The Toffeemaker which I wrote earlier? You think also or otherwise?”
Not sure what you mean by “maintenance” – it may be your turn to have to explain to me!I wanted to tell “the contents, meaning of the last verse”. Damned online translator! Sorry, I will try to be more attentive to a choice of words.
Now you will be able to answer?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++The continuation of “the adventure”
THE LITTLE BLACK FOAL
It is a cub of a horse, not a donkey, I think. Besides it is black.
So Jake hopes that the girl goes to him on a foal.
Why the girl goes on a foal but not a pony, for example? Whether is admissible to go on a foal?
+++
«I know your trot-trot; I’ve heard it such a lot-lot»«Lot-lot» = «much often», yes? That is Jake is familiar with the foal enough long ago and can guess it hearing only steps. However he tells “I can’t remember her name, I only met her last night”. Contradiction? It is possible to think the foal is reasonable souteneur securing orders for girls and bringing them to his old client Jake.
And besides it isn’t clear, what age of a foal with his “lot-lot”.Other version: sometimes at night the girl works, unknown to her family, as the whore, which Jake met last night (decent girls don’t meet at night) at his home for the first time. At night the girl looking for clients (on a foal because other family transport was inaccessible to her) stopped by in all houses, and at last at random arrived to Jake. So they got acquainted. Then «said she’d see me again».
I understand that Jake wanted to tell not it, but it is so possible to think from a context too.+++
«the lane» — small street?+++
«Is it His Worship, the Mayor, her father,
With his brand new jodhpurs and his little hunting cap?
Off to a meeting of the Rural District Council
Where they’ll all talk a load of clap-trap.»Is it Jake asks “Is it her father left the house and came to the Council (and by this reason the daughter can leave the house)” ?
Is it “Off” is a replacement of a verb “to leave (the house)” or the reduced complex “to be off”? Or?..
Why “?” is put after “сар” but not at the end of a verse? Pay attention to the following verse about the mother …+++
«Is it her mother with the huge hindquarters
Which she’s tried disguising at considerable expense,
Off to dig the dirt with the local ladies?
Well, it’s all a load of stuff and nonsense»«considerable expense» — expensive liposuction?
+++
«Is it that big bad bastard, her brother,
With the swanky jacket and the handlebar moustache,
Thinking of his drinking and how good he is with women –
Well it’s all a load of balderdash…»Is it the brother, being at home, completely is shipped in thinking and doesn’t see, that his sister left the house? Or «thinking» is polite replacement for “he drinks & fucks now somewhere” ?
+++
«And the pouting little belly – is that her now ?»
The girl is pregnant?+++++++++++++++++
«And as soon as he goes, stroking his ‘tache»mustache?
+++++++++++++++++
«On Friday night I draws my pay.» = I receive my week salary?+++++++++++++++++
«It was a fine bay pony,
One of the north country kind,
With the bright blue trap going clippety-clappety,
Happily rattling behind his
Delicate little haunches.»«trap» is a car or a horse dress?
The «going clippety-clappety» a car or a pony does?
The «rattling» a car or a haunches (if trap is a dress) does?+++
«She cried, oh! how she cried,
Leaning her head against the window pane,
Watching, day after day,
Awaiting some glimpse
Of him slowly climbing up
The lane between the stony
Walls that always lay between them.»Is it a girl waited to «glimpse» at a pony whether wanted that the pony looked at her?
«When she saw him one day
Winding up the dale.
She went running down the yard
And out into the field»…«Winding up the dale» — hurrying?
«the lane between the stony walls» & «the field» : The events occur in the city or village?
+++++++++++
I think, I already asked much this day. If you long answer, it isn’t terrible because I don’t hurry anywhere.
Yours faithfully
DmitryHi, Dmitry. The quest continues !
First, to finish off The Blacksmith and The Toffee-Maker :
I think that your idea of the “deceit” being the words the Blacksmith spoke in the church could be correct… but I suspect that the deceit is more likely to be the way the Toffee-Maker uses her new husband’s fires to boil her sweets, though, and the fires and sweets could be literal, or be allusions to their lovemaking and what each of them gets out of it. Jake probably means both.
1) “Agony will always find a way.”
Is it means “A aunt/uncle Agony will answer any question” ?
I think it could : but it might also mean that there will never be any shortage of agony felt by the people writing in, and so there will always be questions and answers to be read in the paper. The next line says that you can read the stories there every day, which seems to confirm that.2) “taken short”
Is it a reader tells about a problem, that his child is crapped?I think the problems sent in to the Agony Aunt are summaries of the questioners’ lives, so they are the “short” version of their life stories. I don’t think it is a reference to “taken short” in the usual meaning of being unexpectedly in urgent need of the bathroom, but Jake has still put it in, perhaps because it sounds faintly odd and cheeky, and also to allow him to rhyme it with “surgical supports”.
3) “Agony at seven-and-a-kick a time,”
Is this time of the beginning or end of work-day of the Agony?Seven-and-a-kick is old-fashioned English slang for “7 and 6”, which is “7 shillings and 6 pence”, a price in England’s pre-decimal Imperial coinage system : England changed to decimal coinage in 1971. Your next question also asks about “fifty-nine-and-sixpence”, which is another price – 59 shillings and 6 pence. There were 20 shillings in an English pound, and 12 pence in each shilling, so there were 2 sixpences in a shilling. they would be written as 7/6 (seven and six) and 59/6 (fifty-nine and sixpence).
The two prices are :
7/6 – the cost of the posting of the advertisement or question in the paper
59/6 – the cost of the photographs, which we’ll come to in a minute.4) “Artistic photographs, plain paper covers, fifty-nine-and-sixpence, postage free.”
“plain paper covers,” – notebook or album for artistic photographs?This has a very specific meaning in English from the period Jake is writing : “Artistic photographs” will mean photographs or postcards of nude or scantily-clad women, soft porn, which would not have been readily available to buy in English shops, and which would have had to be bought via mail order. The packages of “artistic” pictures would be wrapped in plain paper, with no indication of the sender or contents, to securely disguise the naughtiness within.
“fifty-nine-and-sixpence” – the price for the work of a photographer (59), for an album of photos (6)? Transfer to the client — 0 pences?
As outlined above, 59/6 is the cost of the rude nude pictures. This is 6 pence short of £3, which is quite a lot of money in the days Jake was writing.
5) “Did Sidney send for postcards through the post?”
I didn’t understand what Sydney made. Did he send the cards to Mollie by mail? Why Mollie took offense?Jake wonders if Sidney bought Artistic Postcards, for his own use, as the paper seems to be advertising them : and Molly may have discovered them and been as offended and disgusted as your mother would be if she discovered your browsing history of extreme porn sites.
6) “And there’s news of debutantes coming out with all the customary Belgrave balls.”
I found Belgrave Hotel in the Internet, but I don’t understand about what it is.Belgravia is, still, a very wealthy area of central London, and “coming out” had a completely different meaning in Jake’s time from the modern meaning of a public announcement that a person may be gay. Young (teenage) ladies of upper-class families would be educated to a socially acceptable standard of manners, behaviour and social skills, and then would be introduced to society in a grand dance, party or ball (as in ballroom dancing, not as in football !) – the occasion was known as the “coming out” of a young woman. Such a girl is also described as a “debutante” – making her debut in society, in the same way that a first-time performer makes a debut on the stage. Jake uses the phrase “Belgrave balls” in its correct sense, but also with the slight pause before “balls” to show that he has a very low opinion of these upper-class pretensions – “balls” is, of course, a mild swear word indicating disdain. He does this in the Little Black Foal too – “balderdash” is pronounced “ball-derdash”.
THE LITTLE BLACK FOAL
– It is a cub of a horse, not a donkey, I think. Besides it is black.
Yes, a young horse, which would be of a suitable size for a young lady to ride.-Why the girl goes on a foal but not a pony, for example? Whether is admissible to go on a foal?
Possibly just because “foal” gives Jake lots of rhymes – coal-black, mole-black.«I know your trot-trot; I’ve heard it such a lot-lot»
«Lot-lot» = «much often», yes?
Jake just means “a lot” but doubles up the word to rhyme with “trot-trot” for the effect, and also with “got-got”.-That is Jake is familiar with the foal enough long ago and can guess it hearing only steps.
-However he tells “I can’t remember her name, I only met her last night”. Contradiction?
-It is possible to think the foal is reasonable souteneur securing orders for girls and bringing them to his old client Jake.Jake’s character may have heard the foal, and the lady on, it go past his house a lot (and her family too), so much so that he can recognise her by the sound. But if he has only just met her last night, it means he has maybe been too shy to meet her in person for quite a long time, which adds a romantic air to his long-term longing to meet her.
I don’t think the foal is an accomplice in bringing girls to Jake – she just rides the foal past Jake’s house. The girl seems to be a more upper-class girl, above Jake in social class, because her family can afford to own horses, and her father is the mayor : my image of her is dressed in a smart riding outfit (the trousers are called johdpurs, which are usually quite figure-hugging), and because of his romantic coyness and social standing, Jake has not been able to summon up the courage to talk to her. He does seem to have achieved some success in that direction, though… :o)-Other version: sometimes at night the girl works, unknown to her family, as the whore, which Jake met last night
-(decent girls don’t meet at night) at his home for the first time. At night the girl looking for clients
-(on a foal because other family transport was inaccessible to her) stopped by in all houses,
-and at last at random arrived to Jake. So they got acquainted. Then «said she’d see me again».
-I understand that Jake wanted to tell not it, but it is so possible to think from a context too.This may be technically possible, but is so out-of character for Jake’s writing that I doubt it enormously.
«the lane» — small street?
Yes.«Is it His Worship, the Mayor, her father,
With his brand new jodhpurs and his little hunting cap?
Off to a meeting of the Rural District Council
Where they’ll all talk a load of clap-trap.»
-Is it Jake asks “Is it her father left the house and came to the Council (and by this reason the daughter can leave the house)” ?
-Is it “Off” is a replacement of a verb “to leave (the house)” or the reduced complex “to be off”? Or?..
-Why “?” is put after “сар” but not at the end of a verse? Pay attention to the following verse about the mother …I think sometimes he looks up eagerly when hearing horseshoes clopping outside his house, hoping to see the girl, but on occasions it is her father. mother or brother there instead. Again, I think the detail you’re reading into the back story – her waiting till the family go out so she can go round to Jake’s – is over-imagined. He seems familiar with the family’s descriptions, so he sees them regularly : but remember, he has only actually met her once last night, however passionately, so she’s not waiting for her father to leave for his meeting all the time, or at least has only ever successfully done it once.
“Off” is used as in “I’m going off to the shops now”, and, similarly to “going up to town”, it’s just slang and strictly not needed to add any extra meaning to the sentence.
There’s no real significance in where the ? is placed. The verse could easily be punctuated
«Is it His Worship, the Mayor, her father,
with his brand new jodhpurs and his little hunting cap,
off to a meeting of the Rural District Council
where they’ll all talk a load of clap-trap ?»
or
«Is it His Worship, the Mayor, her father,
with his brand new jodhpurs and his little hunting cap ? :
off to a meeting of the Rural District Council
where they’ll all talk a load of clap-trap… ?»«Is it her mother with the huge hindquarters
Which she’s tried disguising at considerable expense,
Off to dig the dirt with the local ladies?
Well, it’s all a load of stuff and nonsense»«considerable expense» — expensive liposuction?
No… liposuction is a much more recent surgical procedure than the 1960s, my Russian friend. She will have tried disguising her huge bottom with concealing clothing – expensive, flowing skirts, etc. They have clearly not worked, though. ;o)«Is it that big bad bastard, her brother,
With the swanky jacket and the handlebar moustache,
Thinking of his drinking and how good he is with women –
Well it’s all a load of balderdash…»
-Is it the brother, being at home, completely is shipped in thinking and doesn’t see, that his sister left the house?
-Or «thinking» is polite replacement for “he drinks & f**ks now somewhere” ?Again, you’re over-thinking about her sneaking out from her house, I think. The brother is as described – swankily dressed, full of his own importance and believing himself to be the sexiest male thing in the county.
Note I have censored your colourful ” f ” word – although few people reading this forum will be unfamiliar with this word, and despite youth culture freely using it in social media, it is still offensive to many in polite speech and in reasoned discussion. :o/«And the pouting little belly – is that her now ?»
-The girl is pregnant?
No, just arousingly curvacious, I would have thought. It may be that her belly-button (navel) is occasionally visible while she moves on the horse’s back, and seems to pout at him – such unexpected glimpses of flesh would be surprisingly erotic to a Jake’s romantic character. Also, throughout the song, Jake has gradually revealed progressively more intimate details of the girl’s body, keeping it a sort of secret that that he is physically familiar with her, but finally admitting that they have been intimate together following his meeting with her last night. So, at this final point of the song, he has let us understand that he has seen that pouting little belly in the flesh last night.*Mrs Murphy*
«And as soon as he goes, stroking his ‘tache»
– mustache?
Yes.*One-Eyed Isaac*
«On Friday night I draws my pay.» = I receive my week salary?
Yes.*Fine Bay Pony*
«It was a fine bay pony,
One of the north country kind,
With the bright blue trap going clippety-clappety,
Happily rattling behind his
Delicate little haunches.»«trap» is a car or a horse dress?
A trap is a passenger cart pulled by a horse.-The «going clippety-clappety» a car or a pony does?
The noise the hooves make on a hard street surface.-The «rattling» a car or a haunches (if trap is a dress) does?
The rattling of iron-shod wooden wheels of the trap pulled by the pony over the same hard street.«She cried, oh! how she cried,
Leaning her head against the window pane,
Watching, day after day,
Awaiting some glimpse
Of him slowly climbing up
The lane between the stony
Walls that always lay between them.»-Is it a girl waited to «glimpse» at a pony whether wanted that the pony looked at her?
She’s waiting for the pony, yes, but the object of her waiting is the man she loves who is in the trap being *pulled* by the pony. In this song the pony is the vehicle, and the real point of the song is the man she loves and whose return she is awaiting.«When she saw him one day
Winding up the dale.
She went running down the yard
And out into the field»…«Winding up the dale» — hurrying?
The street may well “wind” – twisting and curving along the contours of the side of the dale. Yorkshire is a hilly part of England and roads naturally follow the contours of the countryside : she may see her loved one in the pony-and-trap, at the bottom of the hill, with the street curving around as he rises up to meet her.«the lane between the stony walls» & «the field» : The events occur in the city or village?
A village, definitely. The whole song evokes a rural scene set in the “North Country” of Yorkshire. Rural Yorkshire is still like this, and even in Jake’s time a city would have had cars, not horses and traps or carts.Cheers !
Malcy
Hello, Malcy!
Sorry, I was late with the answer. You write very clearly, many thanks, but my English is bad. I needed two attempts to understand everything that you wrote. Now I understood everything.
the fires and sweets could be literal, or be allusions to their lovemaking and what each of them gets out of it. Jake probably means both.
I think yes.
About «The Little Black Foal»
Earlier I mistakenly thought that there is no syntactic link between the second verse (The girl who lives … Or…) and the third (Is it His Worship… clap-trap) therefore my questions could seem to you unclear. I thought that the second comes to an end by the significant «Or…» (= “Or out there rattles something else unclear for me…”). Then there is the third with independent sense “Is her father going off to the Council now?” I thought in the third verse the “Is it…+Off” is the unknown to me interrogative verbal frame (as in German) complex.
Now I understand, Jake asks whether it is the father on a back of a foal. Therefore it is possible to read:«…Is it her out there, with the bluebell eyes and the buttercup hair?
Or is it His Worship, the Mayor, her father…?»However earlier it even didn’t come to my mind. It is natural! When a puberal girl (Jake’s character not a pedophile I believe), weighing not less than 45 kilograms, goes on a foal, it is already heavy for one. You told “a young horse” however in the song is not simply «foal» but «little foal» therefore, as it seems to me, it is a cub. A cub of horse it not an adult donkey. Now present that the father and especially big-bum mother climbed on a kid! Poor animal… I hope Jake sneers.
Jake’s character may have heard the foal, and the lady on, it go past his house a lot (and her family too), so much so that he can recognise her by the sound. But if he has only just met her last night, it means he has maybe been too shy to meet her in person for quite a long time, which adds a romantic air to his long-term longing to meet her.
Your version is quite possible. However now I think that in this song there isn’t enough information to guess precisely background. Here it is possible to assume anything.
+++
-The «going clippety-clappety» a car or a pony does?
The noise the hooves make on a hard street surface.-The «rattling» a car or a haunches (if trap is a dress) does?
The rattling of iron-shod wooden wheels of the trap pulled by the pony over the same hard street.«It was a fine bay pony,
One of the north country kind,
With the bright blue trap going clippety-clappety,
Happily rattling behind his
Delicate little haunches.»Earlier I didn’t understand this verse because in the third line the word order is changed. Is it admissible in the literary language? Why Jake didn’t write more logically “Going clippety-clappety with the bright blue trap,»? I don’t see a rhyme for clappety here.
Now other my questions, please:
+++
surgical supports – abortions?“The Honorable Dicky Cholmondley is not sending anybody any Christmas cards.” — Did Dicky congratulates at once “allbody” by this newspaper announcement instead of cards?
+++
«Greasy Joan» — thick or long ago not washing?
+++
A policeman told:
«There was only a gypsy,
A ragged, shaggy blackguard of a didecai.
Up to no good. I did what I should:
A little physical persuasion and he passed on by.»Did a gipsy was killed?
A wife told:
«It was only a gypsy’, she sighed,
A ragged, shaggy blackguard of a didecai,
Up to no good. I did what I could:
A little physical persuasion and he passed on by.»Had a gipsy died from (?by) a sex? Where is his corpse?
Or a gipsy left? Does the verb has two meanings?a didecai — ?
«The house is full of clothes-pegs.»
Idiom? What does it mean?
+++
«There once was an old captain who wished nothing more
Than to live again his voyages and walk by the seashore.»«to live again» – to remember it every day or again really to make it?
‘Cause – because?+++
«You smoke your evil-smelling shag,» = You use the cut hair instead of tobacco?«in the by and by» = by and by / soon?
+++
«In their ears there are maggots. In their inside pockets there are crocodiles.»
«their fingers up my buttonholes»Idiom? What does it mean?
+++
«Pass milord the rooster Juice»So «the rooster juice» — the drink.
Milord – thе title of Sir Jasper or the drink?
Pass – drink! use! ?
Who is Sir Jasper?«the stallion soup» — similarity of viagra?
«And it serves the cocky thoroughbreeders right!»
Tell it in other words.«When you could jam your jodhpur in a village maiden’s doorway.»
To clamp trousers by a door? I don’t understand…+++
«And then they sent a special doctor with a special rubber glove,
And a very special finger and a very special shove.»«special finger, special shove» — ?
I wish you pleasure in your work and in your hobby, Malcy!
Dmitry
PS: The day before yesterday I trying to get on a forum I received “Forbidden” several times. I was frightened that received a ban for mine “f **k” 🙂
Hi, Dmitry. Here we go again !
«my English is bad»
Your English, sir, is infinitely better than my Russian. :o)
«The Little Black Foal»
-When a puberal girl (Jake’s character not a pedophile I believe), weighing not less than
-45 kilograms, goes on a foal, it is already heavy for one. You told “a young horse” however
-in the song is not simply «foal» but «little foal» therefore, as it seems to me, it is a cub.
-A cub of horse it not an adult donkey. Now present that the father and especially
-big-bum mother climbed on a kid! Poor animal… I hope Jake sneers.I think you are getting stuck in the details, here – over-worried by the figures and sizes. In English, a pony would be a very small horse, suitable only for children to ride, while a foal is a young horse, maybe too small for an adult to ride but suitable for a teenage girl of the type that Jake’s character has been longing over. He hears the sound of hooves outside and looks to see if it is his beloved, or if it is one of her relatives : I think the other three members of her family would all be on fully grown horses, especially her mother ! It won’t be the same foal used by all of the family – they are wealthy, with the father being the mayor, so they will have stables with a horse for each of the family.
Don’t worry about the ‘little’ black foal either – ‘little’ can also be a romantic term of endearment, as in saying ‘I love you, my little one’ to your wife, even if she is as grown up as you are. I think Jake is so much in love with the girl that he even feels fondly about her foal, the animal that brings her to his sight.«Fine Bay Pony»
-In the third line the word order is changed. Is it admissible in the literary language?
-Why Jake didn’t write more logically “Going clippety-clappety with the bright blue trap,»?
-I don’t see a rhyme for clappety here.Jake is a poet, not a computer, so he doesn’t write logically. He uses metaphor and word-placement artistically, to create an artistic effect.
«Personal Column»
-surgical supports – abortions?No. A surgical support is a support garment you would be given to wear by your doctor to support an injured or healing area of the body. You would wear surgical support stockings if you had varicose veins on your legs, for example, or you might wear a wide support belt if your lower back is injured.
-“The Honorable Dicky Cholmondley is not sending anybody any Christmas cards.”
For some reason, Dicky has decided not to send anyone any Christmas cards, and he lets them all know by announcing it in the personal column. We may never know why he isn’t sending cards this year.«One-Eyed Isaac»
-«Greasy Joan» — thick or long ago not washing?
Joan is greasy because of poor personal hygiene. This is the type of Friday night entertainment that a rough character like One-Eyed Isaac prefers.
«It was only a gypsy»
This is one of my favourites.
The choruses sung by the policeman are sung by someone whose job is to prevent gypsies, and other suspicious types, from doing illegal things – he will have made the gypsy pass on by, made him stop loitering suspiciously, by possibly pushing or threatening him – ‘a little physical persuasion’.
However, the chorus sung by the wife shows that she has not seen the gypsy as a possible troublemaker, but as a handsome, swarthy, exotic man, and she has let him seduce her, so she has performed a different kind of ‘physical persuasion’ to convince him to go.There is an inferred air of the gypsy getting a small amount of revenge on the policeman : the policeman has pompously and violently been victimising the gypsy all day, but when he comes home the gypsy has seduced the policeman’s wife. Jake had a low opinion of authority figures, especially if they abused their power or position.
The ‘on’ in ‘passed on by’ is not really required – ‘passed by’ would have done, but the use of ‘on’ gives an impression of continuing the motion that was happening before. The image it gives is : the gypsy has been walking suspiciously along and has stopped. The policeman spots this and assumes the gypsy is up to no good, and asks him to continue on his way.
-a didecai — ?
This is spelled in a few different ways, but is a Romany (gypsy) word for themselves, the same was that I would describe myself as British or a Frenchman as français. The word has been borrowed in English to mean a gypsy, but with negative overtones, as the stereotypical view of a gypsy in many countries is, rightly or wrongly, that they are dishonest.«The house is full of clothes-pegs.»
-Idiom? What does it mean?
A common experience English people would have had with gypsies, would have been having a gypsy knock at your door and try to sell you hand-made clothes-pegs or ‘lucky’ heather. The gypsy in Jake’s song clearly has a mustache too, and this explains the last three items : the hedgerow nosegay (small bouquet of flowers), the tell-tale whisker and the clothes-pegs. The gypsy has not only seduced the wife, and left a sprig of hedgerow heather lying on her exhausted bosom, but he has also succeeded in selling her all his clothes-pegs too. :o)«Jolly Captain»
-«There once was an old captain who wished nothing more
-Than to live again his voyages and walk by the seashore.»
-«to live again» – to remember it every day or again really to make it?
To remember it, re-live it in his mind. He’s too old to actually do it physically.-‘Cause – because?
Yes. :o)«Scallywag»
-«You smoke your evil-smelling shag,» = You use the cut hair instead of tobacco?
‘Shag’ is slang for particularly cheap and strong tobacco.-«in the by and by» = by and by / soon?
‘By and by’ tends to mean : not immediately, but at some time in the close future.«The Singer»
-«In their ears there are maggots. In their inside pockets there are crocodiles.»
-«their fingers up my buttonholes»
-Idiom? What does it mean?
The imagery here isn’t particularly specific, and may just be used to add overtones to the people Jake dislikes in the song : the images are a little creepy, unsettling, and faintly horrible and frightening. Whoever the people are who come to see Jake, he dislikes them : however, they are dressed richly – they have expensive overcoats, smell of expensive aftershave, but they have ‘barbed-wire souls’. Maybe they have maggots in their ears because they are spiritually or intellectually rotting. They may have crocodile-skin wallets (?) – this would be a sign of wealth – or they may be offering Jake things from their inside pockets that are as dangerous as crocodiles. I have always had the impression that the visitors are agents from musical publishers or recording companies : dressed richly but trying to fool him into accepting recording or publishing offers or contracts which would be worded in their favour. These people, although part of the world of the artist or musician, are in contract to the beautiful dancer he sings about. Maybe the dancer is a metaphor for Jake’s actual songs ; neat, clear fountains of artistry he ‘dances’ with nightly at gigs, while the people visiting in the daytime are the more parasitic aspect of Jake’s world as a singer-songwriter, all the publisher types trying to rip him off. I haven’t put too much thought into this so I may be way off the mark.
The bit about fingers up buttonholes may be a faintly bawdy partial use of the word butt, (bottom), as in ‘fingers up my butt… (on) holes’ to add to the general idea that the visitors have unpleasant habits.«Pass Milord The Rooster Juice»
-So «the rooster juice» — the drink.
-Milord – thе title of Sir Jasper or the drink?
-Pass – drink! use! ?
-Who is Sir Jasper?
-«the stallion soup» — similarity of viagra?
-«And it serves the cocky thoroughbreeders right!»
-Tell it in other words.
-«When you could jam your jodhpur in a village maiden’s doorway.»
-To clamp trousers by a door? I don’t understand…Right – this is an interesting one. There is a back story to the song : it was written as a ‘point song ‘ – Jake was employed on a weekly TV show to write songs each week about things that happened in the news during that week, and then perform them on the show. Likely they would never be played again, as they would be topical for a short time and then the subject would be forgotten. Jake may have written many we don’t know about, but some of them are recorded : ‘Miss World’ is about the now old-fashioned and rather sexist Miss World girlie swimsuit competition ; ‘The Ladies’ Basic Freedoms Polka’ was written about an occasion when lady feminists decided to pinch men’s bottoms rather than the opposite way round… and there is this one.
«Pass Milord The Rooster Juice» was written after an evening when a promotional talk was given somewhere about aphrodisiacs, and the invited members of the audience were all English aristocrats : Jake wondered why the upper class in England should now all have an urgent need to be sold aphrodisiacs.
So Jake is having a ‘go’, a critical attack, at the English aristocracy, by suggesting that they are losing their sex drive and need love-potions to recharge their passion. All of the potions and drinks mentioned – rooster juice, stallion soup, rhino horn etc – are either actual aphrodisiacs or imagined ones based around animals (roosters, stallions) which are known for lustiness and strength. Today you might add viagra, and also tiger’s testicles, or whatever imaginedly aphrodisiac body part our Chinese cousins are slaughtering tigers to the point of extinction for.
Milord is a title used when a Lord is addressed by someone of lower class : Milord = My Lord. ‘Pass Milord the Rooster Juice’ is an instruction to a servant to ‘Pass the rooster juice to the aristocrat over there’.«And it serves the cocky thoroughbreeders right!»
Jake has mixed up a lot of references in this line.
Cocky can be the sex reference, especially in the light of the aphrodisiac theme of the song.
Cocky Bleeder is a phrase of mild disdain for someone.
Thoroughbred – a term used for an animal bred with a pedigree, a history of pure breeding to accentuate physical characteristics – horses, dogs, cats, etc. Implying that humans have been bred for characteristics in the same way would be insulting, but Jake is reminding us that the aristocracy mostly choose breeding partners from the same finite set of upper-class families and are often accused of being inbred, so he is inferring that the aristocracy can be compared to their own thoroughbred animals. One side effect of breeding an animal – or human – with close genetic relatives over a significant period of time is that the creature tends to become sterile, and Jake is wondering if the lack of sex drive the song is written about is caused by the aristocrats’ own inbreeding.
Serves Them Right – a phrase meaning that someone has got their just desserts for actions they have performed.
Jake mixes these up in a short and very concise line : «And it serves the cocky thoroughbreeders right!» which says in one phrase that
The Aristocracy are inbred
They are no better than posh animals
Their current state of lack of passion is their own faultSir Jasper, now… There is an old English song dating from the music hall days of the 1880s which features a lecherous aristocrat called Sir Jasper – ‘Oh, Sir Jasper, do not touch me’. The premise of the song is that the aristocracy have a right to using the lower classes in whichever way they wish, including sexual assault. The other phrase you asked about, «When you could jam your jodhpur in a village maiden’s doorway» is the same thing : the Lord of the manor going down to the village, knocking on the cottage door of a village girl he fancies, and when the door is opened, he prevents it from being closed by ‘jamming’ it open with his leg, in its posh riding trousers. The inference is that an aristocrat could request sexual favours from any girl in his manor : it was called ‘droit de seigneur’, the right of lordship.
«The Hole»
-«And then they sent a special doctor with a special rubber glove,
-And a very special finger and a very special shove.»
-«special finger, special shove» — ?
Doctors are trained to use their fingers to investigate an ill person’s body to determine what’s wrong with them, so in that way they are ‘special’. In this case – and, remember, the song is about a Hole – Jake adds a bawdy allusion by mixing the doctor, the rubber glove, the finger, and the need for a special sort of shove to bring to mind a proctological examination. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/proctologist :o)Cheers –
Malcy
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