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Hi, Malcy!
I thank you for the congratulation, the time spent to listening and for your answer!Things are enough comfortable in Russia and I was late now with my answer because asked our question of “Bethlehem” at the Russian forum of translators. I waited for the answer, but so far didn’t receive it.
When I analyze Jake’s melodies and accord sequences I have an impression he badly knew the musical theory. He was able to execute different chords on a guitar, but badly knew music modes, for example. Therefore he composed melodies and accord sequences being guided not by theoretical knowledge, but the natural intuition and, perhaps, analogies from someone else’s songs.
However, speak “the genius is talented in any business”. Therefore Jake’s music, being often not professional from the point of view of the theory, thus inexplicably don’t cause in me feeling of cacophony, and sometimes even it is on the contrary very good, such as “The Blacksmith and the ToffeeMaker” or “Black Swan”.
By the way the same, but to a lesser extent, I sometimes assume about Brassens when I analyze his some songs.Still my new question please!
«Death, where is thy victory?
Grave, where is thy sting?»«Your rosebuds are numbered
Gather them now for rosebuds’ sake»I well understand the general sense.
Are its the quotes from English literature? From where?«Let no breast be beaten»
It is beaten by fists? Why it not the face?
By the way, whether it is possible to print on the site the text in more “beautiful” form with final rhymes? For example:
I, the under-mentioned,
By this document
Do declare my true intentions,
My last will, my testament.When I turn up my toes, when I rattle my clack, when I agonise,
I want no great wet weepings, no tearing of hair, no wringing of hands, no sighs,
no «lack-a-day»’s, no «woe-is-me»’s and none of your sad adieus
Go, go, go and get the priest and then go, get the booze,
Boys!Death, where is thy victory?
Grave, where is thy sting?
When I snuff it bury me quickly,
Then let carousels beginBut not a do with a few ham sandwiches, a sausage roll or two and “A small port wine, please”
Roll the carpet right back, get cracking with your old Gay Gordons. And your knees
up, shake it up, live it up, sup it up, hell of a kind of a time
And if the coppers come around, well, tell them, the party’s mine,
Boys!and so on…
With friendship
DmitryHello again Dmitry! Now we know why you’ve been absent for some time – you’ve been busy re-creating Jake’s songs into Russian!
I have no idea if the words you are singing are right or wrong, but they sound wonderful to me, and I like you different melody for “On again! On again!” Have you played them to your friends? It would be interesting to know what they think.
🙂
Pam
Hi, Pam!
I thank you for the attention paid to me.Possibly, only the independent expert knowing both languages in perfection will be able to tell about my translations : exact or wrong.
Some words absolutely can’t be translated to same. For example the Russian names for «dog-rose» & «pussy-willow» is the independent words which aren’t connected with animals. However the hint to animals is essentially important in Jake’s this song.
In similar cases I am compelled to invent a “gag”.I didn’t sing the translations to other people yet. I didn’t have an opportunity as I am a homebody and a little where go. However recently my friend (he is rock musician by hobby) came to me and I acquainted him with Jake’s songs. I gave him to listen Jake’s some soundtracks, showing to him the text translations into Russian at the same time. The translations were sometimes my poetic, sometimes my prosaic which I didn’t turn into verses yet.
Jake’s songs generally were pleasant to my friend, especially “Country Boy, Remember Bethlehem, Joseph” (the friend himself chose these songs to listen as he is the orthodox religious person). I told the friend that Tackray is the sincere Catholic, but the friend was surprised and told that only the Protestant can write such songs. (I didn’t begin to argue because I don’t understand enough religious nuances.)
The friend told about other songs that the spirit of poetry is similar to Brassens. (I acquainted my friend with Brassens’s poetry a little ago.)Warm spring to you!
D.Hi, Dmitry !
Jake was self-taught on the guitar, so he won’t have had a formal education in using his instrument, and so you’re right – most of his understanding of music theory will have been instinctive.
I think, though, that there are probably just as many examples of excellent and inventive musicians who know very little about music theory, as there are musicians who do know music theory ; and not knowing the official rules doesn’t mean that you don’t understand the principles. After all, you can teach a computer the whole of music theory, but that doesn’t mean any music it comes up with is going to be any good. :o)
To your questions :
>>«Death, where is thy victory?
>>«Your rosebuds are numbered
>>Are its the quotes from English literature? From where?Death and the Grave having no Victory or Sting are common to a lot of English hymns, especially in reference to Christ’s death and resurrection, and Jake would have known these references as a religious man. A great example is found in the Bible –
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1 Corinthians 15:55The rosebuds reference is from a Robert Herrick poem, “To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time” :
Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old time is still a-flying;
And this same flower that smiles today
Tomorrow will be dying.>>«Let no breast be beaten»
Yes, with your fists. Beating your breast with your fists is a historical way of openly demonstrating grief.
>>By the way, whether it is possible to print on the site the text in more “beautiful” form with final rhymes?
Your arrangement of the song you have quoted is a nicely artistic and far more poetic effort – well done ! However, the format on the site is intended to show the words of the songs in relation to the phrasing of the tunes, so that a person can learn to play the songs more easily. The main intent of the lyrics and tabs is to allow people to learn and perform Jake’s songs with as basic a level of musical ability as possible (standard chords are used wherever possible rather than Jake’s own, jazzier versions). Someone learning a chord sequence that repeats within a Jake verse or chorus will find it easier to fit the words to the chords if the words are arranged to match the music. Arranging Jake’s lyrics as prose would be certainly be interesting because of the way he inserted rhymes in odd places in sentences : but that’s not what the main aim of the lyrics and tabs is. We wanted to help people to play them, so that the songs would travel worldwide. :o)
Malcy
Thanks, Malcy!
I got it.
I thought earlier that Jake asks the friends not to be angry at each other (let no tooth be gnashed)
and not to fight (let no breast be beaten).
🙂
Possibly, teeth gnashing is too way of expression of a grief.It is reasonable to print verses to inexperienced musicians could to play chords more conveniently.
However, pay attention:Second lines verses on the site
3 accents (//) on the beginning of a chords:
I /want no //great wet /weepings, no //tearing of /hair, no //wringing of /hands,
//Roll the /carpet right //back, get /cracking with your //old Gay /Gordons
//Grow a /dog-rose in my //eyes or a /pussy-wil//lowBut 4 accents:
And you can //fish your /trout with my //fly and /tackle, you can //play on /my gui//tar,And second lines in my opinion — everywhere 4 accents:
I /want no //great wet /weepings, no //tearing of /hair, no //wringing of /hands, no //sighs,
//Roll the /carpet right //back, get /cracking with your //old Gay /Gordons. And your //knees (up),
//Grow a /dog-rose in my //eyes or a /pussy-wil//low. But no for/get-me-//nots (all line about different plants — it is logical)
And you can //fish your /trout with my //fly and /tackle, you can //play on /my gui//tar,And bonus: rhymes now on the places!
===========================
Third lines verses on the site4 accents:
No //sighs, /no lack-a-//days, no /woe-is-me’s and //none of your /sad a//dieus.
And your //knees up, /shake it up, //live it up, /sup it up, //hell of a /kind of a //time.
But no for/get-me-//nots, /no epi//taphs, no /keepsakes; you can //let my /memory //slip.But 3 accents:
/And sing my //songs, wear my /shirts. You can //even /settle my //debts.And third lines in my opinion — everywhere 3 accents:
/No lack-a-//days, no /woe-is-me’s and //none of your /sad a//dieus.(all line about different «words» — it is logical)
(up) /Shake it up, //live it up, /sup it up, //hell of a /kind of a //time.
/No epi//taphs, no /keepsakes; you can //let my /memory //slip.
/And sing my //songs, wear my /shirts. You can //even /settle my //debts.By the way, for studying of the song «The Last Will And Testament Of Jake Thackray» I made to myself the table which I attach. Perhaps, it will be useful for somebody.
If you are needs Excel format – tell and I will send!Do you gave chords on the site in a tonality which Jake sings?
I hear in words “When I turn up my” only GGGGG at that time when the chord Dm is written.
And the last word “Jake” is sung on G note.
I checked a final chord on the spectral analyzer. It is G more probably, but. not D which written.Good health to you!
Hiya Dimitry.
You’re right – gnashing of teeth is also a historical reference to expressions of grief. It’s mentioned several times in the Bible, most notably to describe the torments of the damned who are cast into Hell :
“angels… will gather… those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth”
Matthew 13:42Jake sang many of his songs in different keys over his career, and often the ones arranged for orchestra in his first recordings are in different keys to the ones he would play the songs in when as a solo artist. Last Will And Testament is one of them : the recording on the LP “The Last Will And Testament Of Jake Thackray” is in E, and so is the version on “Jake Thackray and Songs”, but on “Live Performance” Jake plays it in G. I play it in D – G or E don’t fit my voice – and so I tabbed it in the key I was most familiar in. No-one else sent a version in in either of the other keys.
Looking through the tabs, I have found :
Caroline Diggeby-Pratte is played by Jake in Dm and Am ; but we only have tabs for Dm
Jolly Captain is played by Jake in Dm ; but we only have tabs for C#m and Em
Joseph is played by Jake in E ; and we have tabs for E and D
Lah-Di-Dah is played by Jake in D ;, but we only have tabs in C, three different ones sent in by three different people !
Personal Column is played by Jake in C and D ; but we only have tabs for C
The Cactus is played by Jake in G and A ; we only have tabs for A
The Kiss is played by Jake in Dm ; but we only have tabs in Bm and Am
and
The Last Will And Testament Of Jake Thackray is played by Jake in E and G ; but we only have tabs for DThe rest would appear to be in the same keys as Jake sang.
(*** note to anyone – If anyone wants to send in better versions of chords, more accurate ones, or in different keys, please do ! ***)
Some of the tabs have more sets of chords in more than one key, it’s all depending on who contributed. Sometimes the original keys are difficult for beginners to play in – Jake used a lot of non-standard, barred chords, and beginners may not have the strength to barre large parts of a song, or only know a few standard chords. And then, as I’ve said, Jake changed the keys across his career. “On Again ! On Again!” is always played in A, for example, whereas Personal Column is played in either C or D, The Cactus is either played in G or A, Caroline Diggeby-Pratte is in A or D…
I’m guessing that the version of Last Will And Testament you’re referring from is the Live Performance one, which is indeed in G. The “When I turn up my toes” bit is a minor key section, so the chords playing under there will be Gm.
Really, it all depends on what key a contributor sings the song in, if Jake’s recorded original(s) are different, and which ones are easier to play. Some contributors specialise in the live versions Jake played and some the studio versions ; some the earlier versions and some the later ones. Not everyone has the same vocal range as Jake, so they won’t necessarily be comfortable singing a song in the same key as Jake ; and not everyone likes playing with a capo, so using Jake’s chord shapes in a higher key might not sound right either.
Cheers –
Malcy
Hi, Malcy!
I thank for the answer! Everything is written clearly.The version of “The Last Will …” which I downloaded from here — http://deepmp3.ru/jake-thackray is written down with an orchestra in keys of G (Em) – chorus and Gm-verse.
I checked chords on the spectral analyzer. There where the program showed frequency not rather precisely ( alas, my program not exact) I took a guitar and compared aurally. Perhaps I was mistaken somewhere, however it turned out so:Em |Am7 |D7 |Gmaj7 } x 3
Em |Am7 |D7Gm |Am7-5 |D7 |Gm
Gm |Am7-5 |D7 |Cm7
F7 |Bbmaj7 |Gm |Cm7
F7 |Gm7/Bb |Am7 |D7Pay attention to Am7-5 chords. Here I hear Jake sings GGG…
In your version on this place there is Em. But in a key of Dm there has to be Em7-5 (sing DDD…)
In your version two more chords are others (taking into account a transposition), but it isn’t really important for melody.I will write when there are new questions or news.
Good mood!D.
PS — I corrected my typographical error: B > Bb
Hi, Dmitry.
Thanks for your chords : humming through the song, I think that’s what the chords would be in G. If I put those on the tab PDF, would you have a look and confirm that it’s what you intended ? Then, with your permission, I can add them to the site and the the tab collection gets slightly more complete.
You may be right about Am7-5 and it would certainly transpose to Em7-5 for the key of D : my reservation would be that Em7-5 isn’t a standard chord that a beginner would know, so Em or Em7 would do in that place for a document intended to be useable by anyone. There may be points in a Jake song somewhere where the exact and proper chord used is Bdim add 9 … but only 10% of the viewers would know how to fret that chord, and the intention is not discourage a person from playing. As an editor, I would put B major in there instead, which is difficult enough to fret anyway : wherever there is an easier-to-play straight major or minor, we would choose one of those instead. Do you see ? A more technically able player can look at our tabs as a rough guide and add the correct extra fingering as necessary : but a less technical player might not be able to work backwards from Am7-5 to find a chord he can play, and just give up instead, which is not the point.
I’ll have a look at the precise notes Jake is singing, but there are several things to consider. First, Jake isn’t an operatic baritone, always nailing the notes to within 2% of the correct frequency : he’s a self-tought ex-teacher, would-be rural son of the soil and son of a policeman. He is also more likely to use his voice as a flexible instrument, where a bluesy, lazy or lusty quarter-tone is more expressive than a full and accurate half-tone. Because Jake does this a lot, you have to
– either write the whole of the melody of the song out, taking into account his micro-changes in melody in every position
or
– compromise, listen to all of the verses, work out what is probably the average of the tune, and assume that is as close to the melody as you are going to get.I appreciate it may be very important to some musicians as to which precise notes Jake is singing, but from the point of view of simplifying a song for others to learn, it is less important to me : the difference between Jake singing
G / G / G / G
and
(very flat) G# / G / (very flat) G# / G
is unimportant for the purposes of teaching a beginner to sing it. In any case, when writing a melody out on sheet music, we don’t have the terminology to show a quarter tone as a note without resorting to specialist notation, and this will also put beginner people off from learning.Cheers –
Malcy
If you consider I wasn’t mistaken, of course I not against (I am not it’s author) you will add this version to a collection. Only you have to correct B-chord to Bb because I mechanically wrote down Si-flat like “B” by the Russian tradition (we write Si = H).
I assume however you independently noticed my error.Yours care for beginner musicians causes tender emotion, but however it seems to me excessive. The 7-5-chord (or jazz’ Ø) is an equal element of circle of fifths. Even a nonprofessional musician has to know this chord because in some melodies it is impossible to do without it. If the beginner really wants to play a certain song, he surely will study the «7-5» when meets it for the first time in the score. Besides the main 7-5-chords (D, A, E, H, F#, C#) and some equally sounding 6-chords can be played on a guitar very simply without barre! If he doesn’t want to study a chord, it means he is a simply idler.
I sometimes too replace inconvenient chords with the convenient. Is it normal. However I am guided by rules:
– some notes of a melody fragment have to coincide with chord notes — it is obligatory for me
– the chord has to be from the same tonality (circle of fifths) — when it is possibleIn our case the Am7-5 (Jake sings quite precisely GGG…) best of all to replace with Cm6(!), Cm, Eb .
If someone, for example a girl, can’t take a barre she can choose chords not from a tonality, but with note of melody: Em (not E), C etc.Respectively Em7-5 (sing DDD…) > Gm6, Gm, B or Em7 (not Em), G etc.
<- either write the whole of the melody of the song out, taking into account his micro-changes in melody in every position or - compromise, listen to all of the verses, work out what is probably the average of the tune, and assume that is as close to the melody as you are going to get.>
For me we accept only second way as the micro-changes are caused not by the general idea of a melody (Jake not a folk Turkish composer 🙂 ), but by casual emotions, vocal errors or concrete words (for example the diphthongs of «little» or «out» naturally can be sung by a glide from very-flat-G# to very-sharp-F# at that time when G is written in the score). And in a Russian variant there will be other words (and by the way, we have no diphthongs) therefore micro-changes will be in other places.
And my question, please:
«keepsakes» — are things which are put in a coffin or on a grave by friends and relatives? What British usually put?
Littler fogs in your city!
D.Hi, Dmitry.
Maybe your love of the 7-5 chord is a cultural one, or you have a deeper background in jazz than I have. I am aware of the set of chords you’re talking about, of course : but I have played folk guitar for over 30 years and have never used this chord once, and I have also been a professional musician in my long and chequered career through life. :o)
A keepsake is an object that once belonged to a person you loved, who has now died : you have been given the object to keep (perhaps you have chosen it and asked for it) to remind you of the person who has died. So a keepsake is an object you may have – a small ornament, clock, watch, jewelry, or something similar – which reminds you of the love you had for the previous owner when you see or use it.
I will attach the chords to my next posting. What is your family name, Dmitry ? i always credit the contributors when I make the tabs.
Malcy
Thanks!
I saw gifts to in a coffin in the American movie :unsure:Yes, “cultural” is possible. The majority of the Russian songs is written in a natural minor (aeolian mode).
Sorry, if my words seemed «sharp» to you.My surname Veryutin. However I tell it only for our best acquaintance, as I know your surname. Please don’t enter my name and a surname under chords as I am not it’s author and I didn’t add from myself anything.
I apply Am7-5 chord drawing as I could take it. Perhaps, it will be useful for someone.
Blue sky!
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